John Ginn of Thundridge d. 1743

John, brother of Thomas in my last post  married Susanna (sometimes Susan) Walford at Standon in 1710.  He inherited his mother's cottage (which was freehold and thus gave him the vote) and held on to this even after he left Braughing.  This has enabled me to trace him through the Poll Books.

I have assumed that he was a Labourer.  The family moved around a little, having children baptised at Standon, Ware and Thundridge; finally settling at Thundridge.  The old church was demolished in 1853 and only the tower (below) remains.

I know very little about them and have been researching them and their children for twenty three years as I write this. Some of the sons took part in the massive Ginn exodus from Herts of the early 18th century.

John Ginn Senior died in 1743.  He was 59, and is buried at Thundridge.  Susan died in 1745.

John and Susan had eight children:

John - married twice an Elizabeth in circa 1740 and Ann Tinsley in 1773.  Assumed to have been a labourer.

The following children are known to he and wife Elizabeth

John                             1743 died infancy

Elizabeth                     1745

  

In 1747, there is also a Jeremiah Ginn baptised at Thundridge with no parental details given.  It seems likely that the clerk made up the register entries from notes and the notes mistakenly failed to indicate the parents. I have assumed that this Jeremiah (who did not die in infancy) is a child of John and his first wife but obviously cannot state this as a fact.

John lost his first wife and remarried Ann Tinsley (he a widower and she a widow) at Thundridge in 1773.  John died in 1774 aged 61.  Ann was buried in 1789.

Of the children, Elizabeth is untraced but see the note re Jeremiah below*

Mary - had an illegitimate child (Sarah) in 1737 by a John Harris.  She married Thomas Cutmore in 1738 and is believed to have stayed in Thundridge.  Sarah Ginn would appear to have never married and likely died in Thundridge in 1789 as the age given is correct.

Susanna - was discovered in 2009 to have married John Scott , a gardener of Hertford in 1745.(RG7. 219)  It seems clear it was her and not her first cousin.  She and John had a number of children

Ann - also seems to have drifted into Hertford.  She married John Robinson a Mariner of distant Stepney at the Fleet in 1752 (RG7. 13).  It is obviously her.  How she met her husband I have no idea.  The National Archives have records of several John Robinsons of Stepney – all mariners and shiprights.  There are no obvious children on the IGI

Thomas - untraced for years.  A shock arrived in 2010 with the uploading onto the web of the Londonlives.org website.    London/Middlesex magistrate records show that in 1785 a Thomas Ginn and wife with settlement in Thundridge became a burden on the Overseers of the Poor and were moved from Staines in Middlesex (borders of Surrey) to Cheshunt in Hertfordshire.   It could only be this fellow and Tom was then 57. The story became even more intriguing in 2012 when Ancestry loaded up Dorset records.  It appears that at some point Thomas married a Sarah (when and where unknown).  In 1785 they are begging (maybe playing the fiddle/busking) in a pub in Shaftesbury in Dorset no less and were arrested as vagabonds and swiftly moved back through Dorset to Donhead St Mary in Wilts with a view to being moved on to Hertfordshire. The full story I do not yet know but am working on it.  Where they married (if they officially did)  where they were pre 1785 and where they died is a mystery.  I assume there were no children but cannot rule it out completely, not least as those same Ancestry Dorset records show a Thomas Ginn, Labourer (ht 5ft 8ins) in the Militia records at nearby Sherborne in 1798 and the Ginn name in Dorset is otherwise unknown.  Watch this space.

Henry - untraced for sure. Born in 1730, he  is the only real contender for  the Henry Ginn who married Martha Williams of Christchurch, Spitalfields at the Fleet in 1751 (RG7. 98).  He a labourer bachelor of Sandridge in Herts and she a spinster.  Spitalfields is near Bishopsgate  and he may have been required to come into London by his employer to visit Spitalfields Market. I cannot find any Sandridge reference to any Ginn (registers, militia, overseers records) and have assumed that Henry was either passing through or the reference is a clerical error (ie Sandridge for Thundridge and written up from notes) which, given errors on other Ginn entries is not unlikely.  There is no trace of them in Herts and Martha being a “townie” may have induced a move to London.

William - untraced

Robert - died in infancy 

 *  Jeremiah Ginn.   It is considered by myself and other Ginn researchers that it is this Jeremiah (no other of any county being known) that married Elizabeth Dartnell at Chelmsford in 1776.  Jeremiah Ginn was a Victualler (Innkeeper) in Chelmsford and in 2014 I discovered that he held the "Half Moon" which was demolished soon after 1900 but is shown below. 

I do know that he died there in 1787 and has the earliest Ginn "In Memoriam" in any newspaper (Ipswich Journal 14th July 1787) which cites for news from Chelmsford

Elizabeth Ginn remarried William Mudicks at Sandon, Essex in 1788 (Marriage Licence at ERO).  Mudicks was a Yeoman farmer of Sandon who had originally married an Elizabeth Bearman.  Elizabeth Mudicks formerly Ginn/Dartnell died at Great Waltham in 1794 – she has a gravestone in Great Waltham which cites her as formerly the wife of Jeremiah Ginn.  Mudicks is not buried with her so likely married yet again. My research suggests that Jeremiah and Elizabeth never had any children.

Thomas Ginn Citizen & Carpenter of London d. 1734

William Ginn, Miller of Braughing (see post of 4th September) had five sons known to.be living when his widow Mary died in 1723 - William jnr, Thomas, John, Edward and Henry.  Henry (19th September) and William jnr (25th October) we have dealt with,  Today I wish to post what I have on two others:  Thomas here and John.

William Ginn's sons scattered fairly widely and there were lots of grandchildren.  These also scattered very widely (sometimes frighteningly so) and research is only just beginning to find some of them.  Many are still untraced though and there is much scope for further research here - " could do better" as my old schoolteacher used to say !

On 5^th December 1704 “Thomas Ginn sonne of William Ginn of Braughin in the Countie of Hertfordshire Miller” was bound   as a carpenter’s apprentice to a William Everard for seven years and assigned to Thomas Lindzy Citizen and Merchant Taylor of London (Carpenters Company Records – see above).  

Those same records show that Tom was made a Freeman of the Company of Carpenters in January 1713 (above) and set himself up in business as a Master Carpenter apparently, taking a number of apprentices himself over the next twenty or so years, including William Ginn (his nephew from Braughing ) in 1723.

Thomas married Sarah Ton at All Hallows London Wall in 1712, just before he finished his apprenticeship.   The Company of Carpenters was based (as were the businesses of most of its members) on London Wall.  Their Hall is still there.  Unsurprisingly Thomas first used All Hallows, London Wall church for the baptisms of his children and, in fact, ran his business from that area for the rest of his life.

                                    All Hallows, London Wall

Thomas and Sarah had a good number of children, the first couple being baptised at All Hallows, from which point Tom started to use St Giles without Cripplegate which was just down the road.  They are in the Land Tax for that area.  Ironically this was the same church that his very distant cousin Arthur Ginn attended and was churchwarden of at the same time (see post of 29th October ) and I have wondered if they ever spoke

Hogarth - Lord Mayors Show 1747

Thomas seems to have established himself well within the Carpenter’s Company, being one of the two standard bearers for them in the Lord Mayor’s Show of 1733.   This sadly is the last entry in the Carpenters Company records and unfortunately there was a good reason for that as Tom was unwell, he had tuberculosis and was buried at St Giles ("a Carpenter") in 1734, he was 47. 

As we have seen, St Lukes, Old Street was founded in the 1720s out of St Giles parish and Sarah died of a fever and was buried there in December 1739. The church is shown below and remains unchanged but is now a concert venue. Sadly I as yet know nothing of her family. 

Tom and Sarah had seven children and I am working on trying to trace them:

Thomas - there were two, the first died in infancy- untraced       

William - believed to have died as a young adult but uncertain

John  - born at St Giles in 1716 he is believed to have become a builder/bricklayer and gone into adjacent Shoreditch - married Elizabeth Bellas at Westminster in 1737.  There were issue.  Research awaits.

Henry - born in St Giles in 1720 he is believed to have married Rebecca Wiffin at Bethnal Green in 1753.  Untraced further yet.

Ann and Elizabeth - untraced

Edward  - I only know he is the son of Tom Ginn the Carpenter in London because of his apprenticeship indenture. This did not come to light until 2018.   He was born in about 1723.  He was apprenticed to the splendidly named Benjamin Littlewort.  Ben was a haberdasher, also from Essex.  Ben was granted his Freedom in 1687 so was about 70 when he took Edward on as an apprentice  in 1737 ( Ben died in 1748) and it must have been a miserable existence for Edward.  But Ben's shop was in Still Alley, Houndsditch (where Liverpool Street Station is now - I know this area well) and this was no more than a 10 minute walk to the Barbican, where Ned's Mum lived.   But Edward who came from a family of carpenters and builders, obviously thought working in a shop unmanly, because he clearly left.  He seems to have joined the Navy.  You will not find a whisper of  this guy on Ancestry or Findmypast - but I remembered - you need a good mind in the Law -  that I had seen the guy - so I looked up the BMD registers - London's shady clandestine marriages at the Fleet before 1754 and the non conformist and secondary sources - and sure enough there he was.  He married Sarah Kennell  at the Mayfair Chapel in the West End in 1752.  It was a clandestine affair, because his bride Sarah Kennell who came from St Georges, Queen Square (Bloomsbury) was 18.  Her parents were Stephen and Sarah Kennell (married 1727) who lived in Theobalds Road, Holborn -  Stephen, surprise surprise, was a Carpenter/Joiner.  There is a deed from 1745 in the National Archives of a Stephen and Sarah Kennell of Theobalds Road Holborn selling an inherited property from a Thomas Kennell in Hastings, Sussex - so Stephen had come into London from there.

In 1749 they established the British Lying in Hospital for Married Women at Brownlow Street , Holborn.  See engraving . 

 It was felt that women should get a more professional maternity service and it was staffed by professional midwives and matrons with a couple of Doctors and Surgeons (no other men allowed- quite right too).  There were 20 beds for women from all over the country..  You had to have a sponsor to get in. Quite a number of the inmates were the wives of navy and soldiers. The only child I can yet find for this couple (Edward was obviously away a lot) was in 1758.  Sarah Ginn was admitted - they have the most amazing records - which tell you age of woman, name address and occupation  of husband, admission, leaving, date of birth and christening of child and name of sponsor.   Sarah was sponsored by Lady "Betty" Germain - see below - who was a very wealthy 18th century philanthropic widow.

The child was John Thomas Ginn who for some reason I am sure lived.  So now I am looking for him and more on what happened to Edward and Sarah

William Ginn of Anstey d. 1741

William Ginn was one of the surviving sons of John Ginn of Anstey in my post of 12th September.  I doubt that he has any Ginn descendants alive today, although I cannot entirely rule it out, but he certainly must have a good number of descendants generally.

 I knew relatively little about this man until 2011.  There was no record of his occupation, but it seemed pretty clear that he referred to himself as a Yeoman.  He was certainly a solid citizen, because in 1700 he was one of the Churchwardens, and he has his name and the initials "C.W" inscribed on one of the church bells (still in use) and in the belltower below.

In 2023, the Anstey bellringers * were kind enough to send me photos of the treble bell  that bears his name and I was pleased for William and the Anstey Ginn family generally, as it is a reminder, perhaps a form of immortality - of their presence in the parish.

William married Elizabeth Whitby at Anstey in 1689, I sadly know nothing of her family.  They lived in Anstey, though I have no idea where, but it seems likely given what is said below that they lived in the northern part of the parish, as both his father seems to have done and as did his sons.  Some of his land was held freehold, because William had the vote - see Poll Book.

In 2011 it was discovered through the will of his friend and workmate Matthew Rayner a Coachman of the Cockenhatch Estate, and quite prosperous at that, (will ERO: D/ABW 88/2/4 ) that William Ginn was in service to the Chester family who held the large Newsells and Cockenhatch estates in Barkway, a short walk from Anstey.  He had probably been in their service for many years and in 1730 was the Park Keeper (ie Head Gamekeeper) there.  The Cockenhatch Estate is much changed but is still where it has always been.

The picture above is the “Cockenhatch Conversation Piece” by Arthur Devis which dates from circa 1740 odd and shows Edward Chester (owner of the estate) leaning on the horse jump at Cockenhatch, his brother Peter (Governor of Florida in the American Colonies as then) standing alongside him leaning on the jump, a horse and estate groom (sadly not the gamekeeper) in the centre, the Reverend Allen of Barkway on the far right and, a man well known to William, Thomas Gorsuch the Estate Manager and his immediate boss on the far left of the picture.

William died at Anstey in 1741; he was 77.  Elizabeth had died in 1739.

William and Elizabeth had six children:

Elizabeth - clearly married Samuel Munt.  Issue are known.

William - he is in the 1754 Poll Book, then 58  There is no evidence of a marriage or children. I cannot believe that it is he who was the Park Keeper in 1730 as the man in charge would likely have been older.  He does not seem to have died at Anstey.

John - there is some speculation on my part that he died young and unmarried.

Joseph - if one relied on Hertfordshire records, then virtually nothing would be known of this man.  Go to the Essex Record Office and a lot of things become clear.

Joseph Ginn married Margaret Mead in 1738, when he was 38.  I have not checked Margaret’s age, but it is probable that she too was in her thirties.There are only three recorded children, but there was certain­ly a fourth.

Joseph Ginn was a Farmer.  He called himself a Yeoman, and he held some freehold land, because he had the vote.  He was also the tenant of some land held by a Mary Smith (of Great Hormead - see topographical notes: HRO). It is unwise to underestimate him (as I first did) because one of his daughters married very well (see below). Joseph and Margaret's known children are as follows:

            John                 1739    died

            Sarah               1740    md Robert Burton 1764

            Mary                1742   md John Robins 1764

            Elizabeth          1752    md John Leman 1774

The most interesting of these is Mary, who has no baptismal record.  The Essex Record Office has a personal name index (chiefly relating to deeds).  I puzzled as to why Joseph Ginn of Anstey was mentioned.  It turns out that Mary's husband, John Robins, was pretty well off.  He entered into a Marriage Settlement (Post-Nuptial Agreement) with Joseph, and gave as security a good deal of property in Newport in Essex.  There are a whole bundle of deeds concerning this.  The security was for a substantial £500 and involved some eight cottages or so.  Both Joseph and John Robins were quoted as being Yeomen.  Robins promised to faithfully take care of Mary - if he didn’t then Joseph got the £500.  Robins (his parents’ names are given in the deeds) was an Anstey Farmer, but the family later moved to Little Hadham.  There are more deeds at the ERO concerning him and Mary after they had moved to Little Hadham.  I had a quick look at the Hadham register, and it is pretty clear that the couple probably had a good number of descendants through their daughter Milly.  The question is whether researchers will ever connect a Robins family at Hadham with that at Anstey and link in to the deeds at the ERO ! 

Margaret  died in 1773.  There is no burial record for Joseph (who is in the Poll Book for 1761 but not that of 1774)  and doubtless he moved away with one of his daughter’s families.

Benjamin - untraced.  He is not the man who married Grace 
 Graves.  

Judith - is also untraced

* Thanks to James Sawyer the Vicar of Anstey (2023) and particularly Patricia Hamilton and Justin Jewitt of the bellringing team

Spencer Genn of Blackburn d. 1917

Spencer Genn here is a direct descendant of the Richard Ginn of Ely mentioned in my post of 23rd September.  The surname in this family changed its spelling from Ginn to Genn in the latter part of the 18th century.

Whilst I have a very full list of descendants of many mentioned on this blog up until the present day, my custom out of respect for the privacy of people will obviously be not to give any details of people living or those who died after the First World War.

Spencer here was born one of three brothers in 1889 in Blackburn in Lancashire, to where some of the Genn family of Ely had decamped.  

Spencer was a steward on the “Brittanic” (originally called the “Gigantic”) which was commissioned by the White Star Line, was sister ship to the “Titanic” and met a similar fate.

In 1915 the ship was requisitoned as a hospital ship for use during the First World War and her livery was changed and as such she is seen above.  She was used in the Mediterranean.

At 8:12 AM on 21 November 1916, the ship being off of the southern coast of Greece, a loud explosion shook the ship. The cause, whether it was a torpedo from an enemy submarine or a mine, was not apparent * The reaction in the dining room was immediate; doctors and nurses left instantly for their posts. Not everybody reacted the same way, as further aft the power of the explosion was less felt, and many thought the ship had hit a smaller boat. Captain Bartlett and Chief Officer Hume were on the bridge at the time, and the gravity of the situation was soon evident. The explosion was on the starboard side, between holds two and three. The force of the explosion damaged the watertight bulkhead between hold one and the forepeak.The first four watertight compartments were filling rapidly with water. Also, the firemen's tunnel connecting the firemen's quarters in the bow with boiler room six was seriously damaged, and water was flowing into that boiler room. 

As with the Titanic, the crucial things were the bulkheads, if they were damaged or the water were to overflow them the ship would immediately sink.  The good news was that after the Titanic disaster the White Star Line had ordered that the Brittanic's bulkheads be reinforced and enlarged and there were more lifeboats, but unfortunately as the ship was being used as a floating hospital, the portholes on the lower decks had been left open to ventilate the wards.  These filled rapidly with water and the ship began to go down and the ship's crew began to prepare the lifeboats.

Unfortunately, some of the stewards (and I assume this must have included Spencer)  had the Titanic disaster fresh in their minds and panicked and rushed the lifeboats, getting in two and trying to lower  them.  They were stopped, but to avoid the panic spreading the crew left them pretty much to their own devices whilst they attended elsewhere.

The situation worsened rapidly, but the crew had things in hand apparently.  However whilst unattended the stewards apparently lowered the two half lowered boats in which they sat.  They were clumsy, the ropes shot through the pulleys quickly and the boats fell heavily into the water. The ship's engines were still running, the propellers were half out of the water now and still turning, the boats were dragged by the flow onto the propellers and you can guess the rest, a fair number of men were chopped to death and others wounded, Spencer obviously among them.  The ship sank within an hour of the explosion and was the largest ship lost during WW1.

The sinking of the Brittanic was obviously a major disaster and has achieved some attention by Hollywood, a highly fictional film being made in 2000 and the image of the sinking above having been taken from the film.

Ironically, had the stewards not panicked they would likely have got off of the ship completely safely, as subsequently the engines were turned off and no less than 1,036 of the 1,066 on board were saved, partly (as compared to the Titanic) due to the warm sea, partly due to there being more lifeboats and partly due to rescue being at hand.

                            Survivors on board HMS Scourge

 Spencer was obviously invalided home and died of his injuries at Plymouth in 1917 aged 28.  He is mentioned on the Blackburn War Memorial shown below. Spencer is known to have married but I know of no descendants and would be pleased to know more from any family member.

 * In 1975 the famous French diver, Jacques Cousteau, located and led an expedition to the ship.  His conclusion from the damage was that the ship was torpedoed.  Obviously,as the ship was a hospital ship it should not have been torpedoed and the Germans have denied this and subsequent diving expeditions have suggested that the ship could have hit a mine.